F-Type Thatcham Category 1 Approved Security System

Anything F-Type related......
RPSN
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Re: F-Type Thatcham Category 1 Approved Security System

Post by RPSN » Fri May 22, 2020 3:55 pm

PhilB wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:17 pm
Even if you don't have keyless entry, the ignition is still keyless as in you can keep the key in your pocket and once the car detects it's inside the car it will start on the button.
Using the relay method fools the car into thinking the key is within 1 metre of the door so it will open if the car has keyless entry.
They then fool the car into thinking the key is inside so it will start so it's still good to shield the keys even if you don't have keyless entry.
The keys are active 24/7 sending out a weak signal which can be picked up close to the car to allow entry and start.
That's why people are surprised the batteries tend to go at roughly the same time.
The newer system in the latest RR's will have the thieves working on it right now to find a way round it though.

Thanks for this information. I now know that it’s a good idea to keep using the Faraday pouches to shield my F-Type keys even though I don’t have Keyless entry (no button on the exterior door handle).

I was wondering why the key fob batteries needed replacing quite often so now I know why. On a BMW that I've owned for over 10 years, the key fob is charged whilst the key is in the ignition and I've never had to change the key fob battery!

Yes, no doubt thieves are working on something to beat the latest Range Rover's security!.......The fight goes on!
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cj10jeeper
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Re: F-Type Thatcham Category 1 Approved Security System

Post by cj10jeeper » Fri May 22, 2020 5:09 pm

PhilB wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:17 pm
Even if you don't have keyless entry, the ignition is still keyless as in you can keep the key in your pocket and once the car detects it's inside the car it will start on the button.
Using the relay method fools the car into thinking the key is within 1 metre of the door so it will open if the car has keyless entry.
They then fool the car into thinking the key is inside so it will start so it's still good to shield the keys even if you don't have keyless entry.
The keys are active 24/7 sending out a weak signal which can be picked up close to the car to allow entry and start.
That's why people are surprised the batteries tend to go at roughly the same time.
The newer system in the latest RR's will have the thieves working on it right now to find a way round it though.
Phil
What is the source of this information?
My understanding is to start the car the key has to be detected inside the car, not in close proximity outside (as in a relay theft)
Clearly on a non keyless system thieves are going to have to break in physically to open the door To place their deceive inside

Jaguandy
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Re: F-Type Thatcham Category 1 Approved Security System

Post by Jaguandy » Fri May 22, 2020 6:04 pm

Its possible relay theft kits have a more powerful transmitter that will fool the car into thinking the key's inside? I don't know any more on this, but I'd be careful on this point. Does the car know where the key is? Or just the received power of the key?
F-Type R Coupe Firenze (Italian Racing Red) AWD

cj10jeeper
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Re: F-Type Thatcham Category 1 Approved Security System

Post by cj10jeeper » Fri May 22, 2020 6:43 pm

Jaguandy wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 6:04 pm
Its possible relay theft kits have a more powerful transmitter that will fool the car into thinking the key's inside? I don't know any more on this, but I'd be careful on this point. Does the car know where the key is? Or just the received power of the key?
This is partly the reason for my question of the information
For example if I unlock my car and have window down:
key on floor just by car, on top of wing mirror, or even on window door seal car just above retracted glass - won't start
key on door armrest, right trouser pocket, centre console or anywhere else inside, level or forward of driver - will start

Now I just don't believe that the signal is so weak, or accurate that it can decide 5cm more or less is in or out of the car, so it's probably working on a distance calculation or multiple modules, not strong or weak signal

Just exploring rather than guessing and thinking about a risk that may not exist

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scm
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Re: F-Type Thatcham Category 1 Approved Security System

Post by scm » Fri May 22, 2020 7:08 pm

RPSN wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:38 pm
Out of curiosity, if the technician didn’t log out properly after doing a software upgrade etc are there any obvious tell tale signs which would indicate a drain on the battery e.g. hazard warning triangle remaining on etc? Unless of course the battery went completely flat and you couldn’t start the car.
Yes, apparently the hazard lights switch remains illuminated if there's an OBD-related drain. If you've got InControl they'll tell you if the battery goes flat as the car will tell them (guess how I know!).
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RPSN
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Re: F-Type Thatcham Category 1 Approved Security System

Post by RPSN » Fri May 22, 2020 8:29 pm

Ok thanks........guess you're another who's had a phone call then :lol:
MY16 Jaguar F-Type S RWD Coupe 3.0 V6 380PS Supercharged
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RPSN
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Re: F-Type Thatcham Category 1 Approved Security System

Post by RPSN » Fri May 22, 2020 9:31 pm

cj10jeeper wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 6:43 pm
Jaguandy wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 6:04 pm
Its possible relay theft kits have a more powerful transmitter that will fool the car into thinking the key's inside? I don't know any more on this, but I'd be careful on this point. Does the car know where the key is? Or just the received power of the key?
This is partly the reason for my question of the information
For example if I unlock my car and have window down:
key on floor just by car, on top of wing mirror, or even on window door seal car just above retracted glass - won't start
key on door armrest, right trouser pocket, centre console or anywhere else inside, level or forward of driver - will start

Now I just don't believe that the signal is so weak, or accurate that it can decide 5cm more or less is in or out of the car, so it's probably working on a distance calculation or multiple modules, not strong or weak signal

Just exploring rather than guessing and thinking about a risk that may not exist

You may be right but for the sake of two Faraday bags/pouches (one for my first set of keys and another for my spare set), I’m not prepared to take any risks with my vehicle’s security, even though it doesn’t have Keyless entry (i.e. no button on exterior door handle).

Car thieves nowadays are very advanced with their signal boosting technology etc!

This link shows the 'Best signal-blocking Faraday bags for car keys in 2020'.

https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/tips-and-adv ... ys-in-2020
MY16 Jaguar F-Type S RWD Coupe 3.0 V6 380PS Supercharged
Rhodium Silver
Panoramic Glass Roof
Sports Seats (heated) in Jet Leather
Seat Memory Pack 2 (14x14 way)
Powered Tailgate (open & close)
Reverse Park Camera with Guidance
Front Parking Aid

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PhilB
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Re: F-Type Thatcham Category 1 Approved Security System

Post by PhilB » Sat May 23, 2020 9:28 am

cj10jeeper wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:09 pm
Phil
What is the source of this information?
My understanding is to start the car the key has to be detected inside the car, not in close proximity outside (as in a relay theft)
Clearly on a non keyless system thieves are going to have to break in physically to open the door To place their deceive inside
Yes, that is right.
Perhaps I should have been clearer.
All F-Types (and most other JLR cars) have keyless start.
The key has to be inside the vehicle before the button will start the car.
Try leaving it on the roof and the car won't start.

If the vehicle has keyless entry then the key has to be detected by the car within 1 metre of the door to enable the tap the handle unlocking.
That's from the manuals and from refs on other forums.

So if you have keyless entry the bad guy will stand by your front door to pick up the key signal if it's unshielded and use his booster box to relay it to his oppo standing by the car who can then open it.
They then use that boosted signal inside the car to enable the start.

This vid is of a merc and after gaining entry you will see one go back to the property to boost the signal again to his mate in the car who can then start it.

cj10jeeper
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Re: F-Type Thatcham Category 1 Approved Security System

Post by cj10jeeper » Sat May 23, 2020 10:00 am

That’s more clear then, in that with keyless off or a non equipped car the thief will have to physically break in. He needs to do that to get inside with the device.
I believe in this scenario most of these ‘stealth’ thieves will pick another Softer target car.

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PhilB
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Re: F-Type Thatcham Category 1 Approved Security System

Post by PhilB » Sat May 23, 2020 10:19 am

cj10jeeper wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:00 am
I believe in this scenario most of these ‘stealth’ thieves will pick another Softer target car.
Exactly.
It proves people should shield the keys even if they don't have keyless entry.
But breaking into a car will set the alarm off so they will be reluctant to do that.
A visible deterrent might be a pain to take off and put back on when it's at home but it will make them go and find something else.
Plus you can always use it to twat them with if they try and hijack the car.
:D

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