Jaguar F-Type differential failures - Input needed.

Anything F-Type related......
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Tel
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Post by Tel »

I think that the oil should be changed every 15k and no more. I also believe that dealers are NOT changing the oil when they say they have...but it's a tricky one to prove.
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scm
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Post by scm »

Tel wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:32 pm I think that the oil should be changed every 15k and no more. I also believe that dealers are NOT changing the oil when they say they have...but it's a tricky one to prove.
According to the schedule for mine, tt's a 4-yearly rear diff oil change. 3-yearly for transfer box oil, and 9 years for the front diff oil.
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Post by Mcrb10 »

Mcrb10 wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:51 am Hi All,

I've made an account to log my experience! MY F type R AWD 2015 29k on the clock had the 48month service included rear diff oil replacement in January 2020 (still had my HR Owen specialist cars 1 year warranty at the time.) The diff had been leaking apparently and I had the pinion seal replaced which is quite common by the sounds of it. 9 months and 900miles later the rear of car starts whining, I take it in to harwoods Basingstoke to have a wheel bearing changed, turns out to be the rear diff and I'm now out of warranty. £3300 quoted replacement + £192 4 wheel drive alignment as they have to take the rear subframe off to access it. ouch.

I haven't authorised the works yet, they're saying the oil has swarf in it and is metallic... my question to them is why this wasn't checked in January when it had been leaking and the oil was old and I was still in warranty. I have jag specialist Barny Jones in Farnham to quote the work and give me a second opinion. quote back was £3,273.59 and £885.54 if the electric motor on the diff needs changing too.

I wonder why the replacement oil has now highlighted the diff problem. did the carry out the service correctly in january. if there was swarf back in January and also If I have any other options. So far Jaguar want to replace the whole diff assembly, part cost is £2100. surely cheaper to diagnose and fix the diff. not really sure what to do, jaguar seem to have me cornered, something needs repairing,

Do I trust the dealership that the works are required or go elsewhere for 2nd opinion

Wish I had taken that ALA RAC extended warranty out before taking it in thinking it was the wheel bearing £374 repair...

Best regards,
Matt

Had a good conversation with the master technician from harwoods Jaguar who was very good with me and was happy to talk in a lot of detail. Ultimately with the rear differentials, he said that those which start leaking at the pinion usually end up requiring a new diff if not caught early enough. reason for this is when the oil runs low there is a bearing inside the differential which is heat treated and surface treated. if this bearing isn't getting flushed with oil to take the heat away it burns its surface treatment coating off and then will degrade after that regardless of if you keep flushing it with new oil. They don't sell the bearing on its own.

My advice would be, if your pinion seal goes, make sure the oil is checked thoroughly, especially if you are near the end of a warranty like I was.

Hope this helps. My car is having the work done

Best regards, Matt

Best regards,
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Post by JurassicF »

Sorry to hear this Matt, is there any goodwill from JLR?
My diff was leaking the day I picked up the car, it was less than 2 years old. Similar story, replaced the seals but it required a new diff. Fortunately under warranty and leaks are something I check for every time it's on the ramps.
The diff oil certainly won't get changed at 4 years if you use JLR's fixed price servicing, you even have to push for the 2 year brake fluid change.
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scm
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Post by scm »

JurassicF wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:35 pm... if you use JLR's fixed price servicing, you even have to push for the 2 year brake fluid change.
My indy checks the brake fluid every year and changes it when it needs changing, rather than me having to shell out every two years regardless.
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Tel
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Post by Tel »


Had a good conversation with the master technician from harwoods Jaguar who was very good with me and was happy to talk in a lot of detail. Ultimately with the rear differentials, he said that those which start leaking at the pinion usually end up requiring a new diff if not caught early enough. reason for this is when the oil runs low there is a bearing inside the differential which is heat treated and surface treated. if this bearing isn't getting flushed with oil to take the heat away it burns its surface treatment coating off and then will degrade after that regardless of if you keep flushing it with new oil. They don't sell the bearing on its own.

My advice would be, if your pinion seal goes, make sure the oil is checked thoroughly, especially if you are near the end of a warranty like I was.

Hope this helps. My car is having the work done

Best regards, Matt

Best regards,

That's very interesting Matt - Thanks for the post.

I think the majority would agree with what your man is saying - essentially 'no oil' and bearings do not mix, and thus a catastrophic failure is to be expected.

The issue I have with this explanation is two fold...

Firstly, one would have to drop approx. 1 - 2 litres of oil for this to happen (yes there may be 1/2 L left in the diff).
This would be, I think quite significant.
Unless I'm very much mistaken, the front seal leaks have tended to be more of a ''weep'' i.e a drip here or there - I may be wrong and stand to be corrected.
I am pretty sure you would see the warning/tell-tale signs of a leak even if one litre?

Secondly, how would this explain the failures for those owners that have not had any weep or leak from the said seal?

I'm all ears from others, but I still have based a fundamental picture based on numerous posts both here and on the US site and DM/PM's
I beleive that there's more at play here.

The more info we share though, the better picture we can build, and Matt please don't take it as a dig at your post...far from it, it's to encourage dialogue, I'm just inquisitive.
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Post by JurassicF »

scm wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:04 pm
JurassicF wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:35 pm... if you use JLR's fixed price servicing, you even have to push for the 2 year brake fluid change.
My indy checks the brake fluid every year and changes it when it needs changing, rather than me having to shell out every two years regardless.
Two JLR dealerships have never even mentioned brake fluid change and it's just had it's 5 year service. I bet they don't check fluid condition as your independent does, in the same way diff oil change just gets ignored🙄
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Tel
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Post by Tel »

JurassicF wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:51 pm
scm wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:04 pm
JurassicF wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:35 pm... if you use JLR's fixed price servicing, you even have to push for the 2 year brake fluid change.
My indy checks the brake fluid every year and changes it when it needs changing, rather than me having to shell out every two years regardless.
Two JLR dealerships have never even mentioned brake fluid change and it's just had it's 5 year service. I bet they don't check fluid condition as your independent does, in the same way diff oil change just gets ignored🙄
:evil: :evil:
Same here.
We should start a separate thread for 'ignored brake fluids' as well - I ended up doing a flush myself as it wasn't even flagged at service.
Fortunately, water content testers are cheap and colour of fluid will tell you the kind of metal contamination.
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aihjar
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Post by aihjar »

Just got mine (2017 V6 R-dynamic coupe, 39700m) back from Jaguar dealer. At first they couldn’t detect noise I reported but then found it to be coming from diff ! Carried out work under warranty. Now: “Unable to replicate noise after diff oil replaced and diff reset” So - fingers crossed. !
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Post by Mcrb10 »

Tel wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:50 pm

Had a good conversation with the master technician from harwoods Jaguar who was very good with me and was happy to talk in a lot of detail. Ultimately with the rear differentials, he said that those which start leaking at the pinion usually end up requiring a new diff if not caught early enough. reason for this is when the oil runs low there is a bearing inside the differential which is heat treated and surface treated. if this bearing isn't getting flushed with oil to take the heat away it burns its surface treatment coating off and then will degrade after that regardless of if you keep flushing it with new oil. They don't sell the bearing on its own.

My advice would be, if your pinion seal goes, make sure the oil is checked thoroughly, especially if you are near the end of a warranty like I was.

Hope this helps. My car is having the work done

Best regards, Matt

Best regards,

That's very interesting Matt - Thanks for the post.

I think the majority would agree with what your man is saying - essentially 'no oil' and bearings do not mix, and thus a catastrophic failure is to be expected.

The issue I have with this explanation is two fold...

Firstly, one would have to drop approx. 1 - 2 litres of oil for this to happen (yes there may be 1/2 L left in the diff).
This would be, I think quite significant.
Unless I'm very much mistaken, the front seal leaks have tended to be more of a ''weep'' i.e a drip here or there - I may be wrong and stand to be corrected.
I am pretty sure you would see the warning/tell-tale signs of a leak even if one litre?

Secondly, how would this explain the failures for those owners that have not had any weep or leak from the said seal?

I'm all ears from others, but I still have based a fundamental picture based on numerous posts both here and on the US site and DM/PM's
I beleive that there's more at play here.

The more info we share though, the better picture we can build, and Matt please don't take it as a dig at your post...far from it, it's to encourage dialogue, I'm just inquisitive.
Hi Tel,

Not taken as a dig at all don’t worry!

Having looked through the workshop manual my understanding is that there is only a volume of 860ml of diff oil in the assembly, i don’t actually know how long the diff has been leaking as it may have already been leaking before i bought the car too, i had just misdiagnosed the marks on my garage floor as exhaust deposits so who knows how long its been leaking. 860ml doesn’t give you a lot of room if its been slowly leaking for 2 years i guess.

Regarding your other point about failure without leaks, perhaps that failure is due to other reason than mine instead of a bearing failure.

Ultimately i will never know the true cause of mine without asking for my failed diff then opening it up, but perhaps every fail isn’t for the same reason

Best regards,
Matt
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