The death of enthusiast cars

[cj10jeeper]

Final comment, I heard a EV reversing the other day (Nissan I think) and it had a polite version of a commercial vehicle reversing beep, beep, beep. That summed up my dismay at the future......... will be hanging onto my R for as long as possible.

I believe that’s fading out now. They are either programmable or don’t make any external noise at all. Certainly no such nonsense on my iX3.

[ralphr1780]

Well put and fully supported rant Stefan.

On another note to comment on the Nissan beeping in reverse: our neighbour moved away from the neighborhood a year ago as he couldn't live anymore in the same house where he had pulled in reverse into the garage, and squeezed his wife to death against the wall, in his Toyota hybrid...

[stefan9107]

Hi Stefan,
Don't believe all the news on the transition to EV's. The deadlines are being set by governments whether the customer or the technology are ready or not. Lots of car companies made predictions in-line with the targeted dates but believe me, as a supplier of components into the EU car industry, the forecasts for parts for V8's is strong for many years yet. For sure, there is no engine development going on other than design changes to make then suitable for Hybrids so smaller engines are stagnant, but V8's remain strong due to demand. I think a lot of people are getting them while they can.

Final comment, I heard a EV reversing the other day (Nissan I think) and it had a polite version of a commercial vehicle reversing beep, beep, beep. That summed up my dismay at the future......... will be hanging onto my R for as long as possible.

I think the issue is, whether ICE sales/demand is strong or not, the government is still forcing the legislation that way. There may be more time than the governments are suggesting, but the current legislation is why we are seeing abominations like the new C63. So demand for a V8 might still be there, but where do you get one? As of 2024... not Jaguar.

I do agree though that there will definitely be more time than the current numbers are saying, and some countries are already watering it down with "o but synthetic fuels" etc. Realistically the infrastructure isn't there for one, the tech isn't quite there yet as far as range, the upfront car costs haven't come down nearly enough (I can't imagine the customer who gets a new Qashqai for £26k can suddenly afford a £46k Ariya), and outside of company car users there is minimal demand. VW have already come out and said they are cutting EV production due to "strong customer reluctance". That isn't helped by VW having some of worst EV's of course.. but still, it shows that people don't want them.

Ultimately I think there is still some hope, but the number of offerings like the F-Type will become few and far between with every year we tick closer to the "deadline".

[jonm]

Why worry? There's nothing stopping us keeping the old cars on the road, they might even become more collectable as a result.

[scm]

Why worry? There's nothing stopping us keeping the old cars on the road, they might even become more collectable as a result.

Completely agree, while there's fuel in the petrol stations, I'll keep on using mine. Don't really care about it being a collectible - I'd rather drive it! And annual road tax of £180 has to be good.

[simpleR]

I'm just going to come out and say this.

I like electric cars. Especially a performance Tesla model 3.
Even my local go kart track has gone electric and I like that too, I would say I prefer it. The only reason I don't have one is the price of them and the cost of filling them up.

A lot of people are struggling with high inflation and ever rising mortgages as current fixed deals end. I would of brought a Tesla to be honest as the family car, but that money is now diverted into increased energy bills, mortgage and food costs. Going back 2 years, I am now much worse off every month in bills to the tune approaching a four figure number. So our two cars will remain. Mine was staying anyway but the Qashqai will as well as spending over £40k on a replacement electric like for like alternative with luxury road tax as well is crazy.

Yes I agree with the OP original rant. It was a good point of view. Petrol cars will remain for a long while yet. The infrastructure is not there to support electric cars. Transport isn't either. Decades and decades away regardless of government 2035 or 2040 "deadline". So even though new V8's aren't being produced anymore, I think they will survive.

Rewind a couple of generations, the guy down the road has three 205GTI's. Two perfect and a third looks like a donor car to keep the other two going.
My son in 50 years time might have an old Tesla Model S Plaid and think that is the ultimate enthusiast car. Times change. But in my era it will be petrol to the end!!

Let's hope synthetic fuels come a long quicker.

[stefan9107]

I'm just going to come out and say this.

I like electric cars. Especially a performance Tesla model 3.
Even my local go kart track has gone electric and I like that too, I would say I prefer it. The only reason I don't have one is the price of them and the cost of filling them up.

A lot of people are struggling with high inflation and ever rising mortgages as current fixed deals end. I would of brought a Tesla to be honest as the family car, but that money is now diverted into increased energy bills, mortgage and food costs. Going back 2 years, I am now much worse off every month in bills to the tune approaching a four figure number. So our two cars will remain. Mine was staying anyway but the Qashqai will as well as spending over £40k on a replacement electric like for like alternative with luxury road tax as well is crazy.

Yes I agree with the OP original rant. It was a good point of view. Petrol cars will remain for a long while yet. The infrastructure is not there to support electric cars. Transport isn't either. Decades and decades away regardless of government 2035 or 2040 "deadline". So even though new V8's aren't being produced anymore, I think they will survive.

Rewind a couple of generations, the guy down the road has three 205GTI's. Two perfect and a third looks like a donor car to keep the other two going.
My son in 50 years time might have an old Tesla Model S Plaid and think that is the ultimate enthusiast car. Times change. But in my era it will be petrol to the end!!

Let's hope synthetic fuels come a long quicker.

I should say I don't really have anything against electric cars for the most part. The engineering is pretty cool and the extremes they are able to go to are crazy - a 2400 kg luxury saloon that does 0-60 in under 2 seconds is MENTAL (Lucid Air Sapphire). It's more about the governments forcing them down our throats rather than letting it happen more naturally, all whilst demonising diesel's or sports cars that are significantly less polluting than they used to be.

EV's do have a place in our world for sure and a pretty wide use case at the moment, but they DO NOT fit every situation. For every 1 happy EV owner I've encountered there are 2 who clearly didn't do their research or think about it enough. In my opinion, at the moment at least, if you can't charge at home and/or you regularly do round trips over 200-250 miles... just don't get one. Yes sure there are some where this works for them, and some who pretend it works for them, but just wait for now is my recommendation. Especially as you need to do A LOT of miles at the moment for the added cost of an EV over ICE to be financially viable (unless you have a massive solar panel array). As costs come down and range goes up that use case will increase to more people. I run an iX3 as a company car but it's purely because I didn't have to stomach the upfront cost, cheaper company car tax (that won't last) and because at most I do maybe 150 miles in one day absolute worst case. Cruising around in silence gives the car a more luxury feel in my opinion so does actually add something to the experience and fits that type of car well. Doesn't really work the same way for a sports car though. I can't imagine there are many out there picking a Taycan over a 911 for example. It'll be VERY interesting to see what happens when the electric Cayman/Boxster comes along. I think that will be a big test of how much appetite there is out there for electric sports cars.

Edit: However, as they stand I refuse to get a Tesla. It's just a boring looking gimmick on wheels at the moment. I can't stand that massive centre stuck on ipad interior with no cockpit/gauge cluster. They might be doing it now, but you couldn't even get a heads up display which seems ridiculous to me given the aforementioned omissions from the car. Toss in their shady business practices, shady "self driving" bullshit, and sh*t after sales service and you can most definitely count me out. Other options I'm more onboard for though.

[simpleR]

Edit: However, as they stand I refuse to get a Tesla. Toss in their shady business practices, shady "self driving" bullshit, and sh*t after sales service and you can most definitely count me out. Other options I'm more onboard for though.

I really like them. And they are one of the top companies in the US (2nd place) and worldwide in the Net Promoter Score (NPS) so must be doing something right in customer and aftersales service.

Great debate though.

[stefan9107]

Edit: However, as they stand I refuse to get a Tesla. Toss in their shady business practices, shady "self driving" bullshit, and sh*t after sales service and you can most definitely count me out. Other options I'm more onboard for though.

I really like them. And they are one of the top companies in the US (2nd place) and worldwide in the Net Promoter Score (NPS) so must be doing something right in customer and aftersales service.

Great debate though.

Each to their own of course.

And as far as the NPS, that's where the Tesla"ness" comes in. The company is kind of based around a bit of a cult following of extremely passionate fans and the NPS score is a result of that. I'm not necessarily talking car people either. We are talking about the same people that camp out for a week to get the latest iphone first. I forget where I read it, but something came out back during Covid times where the vast majority of customers that responded to the survey were of a certain age group and were significantly biased towards working in the silicon valley tech industry. The general rule tends to be that most people of the older demographic that take the time to respond to surveys and leave reviews online for various goods and services tend to only do so to complain. We all do it when something goes wrong - jumping straight onto the forum, tripadvisor, google review or whatever the bash the terrible experience we've just had. Tesla is the documented exception in that it has somehow managed to get the people with a positive experience to jump in as well. It's also really the first new big car brand/company to come along in forever and therefore doesn't have an older following and has really attracted the younger crowd that have grown up around the internet. Anyway, ultimately I think the biggest floor that keeps being highlighted is a lack of service centres to perform repairs, which kind of goes hand in hand with the buy online no showroom kind of thing which makes sense.

Overall though it's mostly that I just don't like the cars exterior and interior design . I do however acknowledge that they are almost single handedly responsible for creating the EV market and are still for the most part ahead of the competition with regards to the tech they have. Whether that will remain the case long term who knows. It will be interesting to see.

[Philb280]

This is as green as i will go