The death of enthusiast cars

[stefan9107]

I'm new here, so I'm not sure if this has really been covered or not before. Apologies if it has. Also apologies for that fact that this is basically just a rant.

What spurred this is a conversation me and friend just had. We both just watched a youtube review on Throttle House of the new C63s... the 4 cylinder hybrid. On paper its quicker than ever with 670hp, and more expensive than ever at £100,000. As expected though, it lacks any kind of soul. For me an AMG, a C63, was always a thumping V8. It's what makes an AMG an AMG, or at least the 63. People talk about the holy trinity (LaFerrari, 918 and P1) , but when I first got my license the holy trinity to me was the E92 M3, the B7 RS4 and the W204 C63 (I'm 31 for reference). Those were the cars I aspired to own one day (outside of the usual supercar stuff anyway). They all had their own appeal. The M3 was the drivers car, the more focused and clinical machine. The RS4 was the fast and raspy sophisticated gentleman's choice, the one that the company CEO with a family would roll up in. And the C63 was the tyre shredding hooligan that sounded like it was trying to change the direction of the earth's rotation. As things moved on so did the cars, BMW went back to the straight 6, Merc and Audi downsized and added turbo's, but they still retained what made them what they are. They still kept that DNA. Now it's just gone though (or at least in the C63s... others will follow).

My concern here is that we have slowly seen the degradation of enthusiast cars. Even if we ignore prices and the number of "cheap" sports cars you can still buy vs years past, the experience just keeps being dialled out more and more. First the cars got heavy, then the steering went numb, and now the last bastion, the engine, is also going numb and disappearing altogether. The new C63 for me is a glimpse of what life will be like when everything is an EV. Where everything just becomes an appliance and there isn't any unique thing about the car that makes it worth having over another. I mean, I would love to know who is going out and spending £100,000 a that new C63s. Surely any enthusiast would take the M4 over it... as ugly as the poor thing is. At the moment we are obviously at a bit of a cross roads where these in between type cars are coming out. But what happens when we go all in on EV? At the moment they can be exciting because they are still a bit of a new thing with the gimmicks of over the top tech and sub 2 second 0-60's. But once ALL of them are doing that, the only thing to really differentiate between them will be what they look like. Sure there will be subtle differences in how they handle, but the average 7/10's driver won't be able to tell the difference. Only the journalist on the race track will. Will kids really have posters of a Rimac or Tesla on their wall? Or today's equivalent your phone/desktop wallpaper.

Honestly it kind of pisses me off mostly because of my age. I feel like I've missed out. Okay I can still go back and buy some of these cars, but for how long? Cars get old, they age out, they get scrapped. When I'm 50 or 60 will there even be an enthusiast car I can buy that isn't 20-30 years old? It's part of the reason why I've grabbed my F-Type R whilst I can. Ever since seeing it for the first time on Top Gear I knew I wanted one, and with this being the last year Jag make it I felt like now was the time. So I'll take my fun now whilst I can, but I'm genuinely concerned going forward. Not just for my selfish want for fun and excitement, but also for certain car brands. At the moment you choose a Jag F-Type over a 911 "cus V8" (okay not the only reason but you get the idea). But what about when that isn't there? Companies like Jag may end up right back in the trouble they were in the not so distant past. All they will have is design/luxury... but then that's all anyone else will have as well. Not that I'm a fan, but Dodge is another great example. They're whole brand USP is basically Hellcat. Ram TRX, Challenger, Charger... big loud brash unapologetic muscle cars with crazy engines. Who in their right mind is buying a Dodge when they are all electric?! I suspect we may end up with a situation where only the super wealthy can afford a true enthusiast car, but with the hard push in Europe to electric only sales even their days are numbered.

Anyway... I just felt like I needed to have a bit of a rant. I'd be interested to hear what others on here think. My assumption is everyone here is an enthusiast/petrolhead. I'm also guessing a slightly older demographic also... so I'd be interesting to hear what others think the future may look like and if they are just making the most of what they can whilst they can. Who knows, maybe some are excited by an electric future...

[Lunar]

Welcome Stefan.

Well that was quite a first post!

Have to say, I agree with your comments wholeheartedly.

I bought my convertible F for its sound and looks - and for driving as often as I can.

But with nigh on 100k miles on the clock now I’ve been looking round and reckon I’d have to spend 2-3x as much as before to replace it with something like a Spyder - if I could bear the Porsche sales attitude.

Tempted to go for an original Callum shape awd R - but worried by the future parts availability as you can’t even get hold of some parts now.

The one bit of electric future I would wish for is that they’d gone with the prototype’s kers system and a push to pass button!

For now let’s just enjoy the ride.

…and I rarely use the stereo, but if so how about a bit of Rush and Red Barchetta as a homage to the days of proper car engines.

Anyone else fancy a rant? - it’s rather cathartic

[mickjaguar]

I'm new here, so I'm not sure if this has really been covered or not before. Apologies if it has. Also apologies for that fact that this is basically just a rant.

I'd be interested to hear what others on here think.

I really enjoyed reading your post , well written and spot on. Great rant! Are you sure you're 31 ! As you mention, most F-type owners are generally a bit (or a lot) older. This probably is due to the price of the cars historically, which is changing as they get more affordable. Quite a few "younger" folk have F-types now. My friend at work bought his at age 24 (6 years ago) and still can't see anything he'd rather have.

In terms of EV's, I think the current battery technology determines the dullness to a large extent. In design terms, not having to package much in the way of mechanicals should enable some stunning designs one day. A space ship on wheels will do nicely, but it'd have to be outrageous to replace the sound of an engine.

[scm]

At the moment you choose a Jag F-Type over a 911 "cus V8" (okay not the only reason but you get the idea).

In the UK the main reason to choose a Jag over a Porsche is to be let out of junctions, and to be treated like a human being!

[stefan9107]

Welcome Stefan.

Well that was quite a first post!

Have to say, I agree with your comments wholeheartedly.

I bought my convertible F for its sound and looks - and for driving as often as I can.

But with nigh on 100k miles on the clock now I’ve been looking round and reckon I’d have to spend 2-3x as much as before to replace it with something like a Spyder - if I could bear the Porsche sales attitude.

Tempted to go for an original Callum shape awd R - but worried by the future parts availability as you can’t even get hold of some parts now.

The one bit of electric future I would wish for is that they’d gone with the prototype’s kers system and a push to pass button!

For now let’s just enjoy the ride.

…and I rarely use the stereo, but if so how about a bit of Rush and Red Barchetta as a homage to the days of proper car engines.

Anyone else fancy a rant? - it’s rather cathartic

Haha, I think there actually might be some cars that are doing a "boost"/push the pass type feature. I forget which ones though... I think Merc comes to mind.

I also can't listen to any music that gets me too excited when behind the wheel. There is a song by A called Nothing that was the music for the old V Rally 2 playstation 1 game opening. The music would be blaring whilst all these 90's rally cars like the old Evo's and 206's were hammering around the various rally stages. As soon as that comes on my spotify I have a Vietnam style flashback and start driving like an absolute tool before I snap out of it again. Thankfully in the R I have a better soundtrack to listen to so Spotify stays off.

[stefan9107]

I'm new here, so I'm not sure if this has really been covered or not before. Apologies if it has. Also apologies for that fact that this is basically just a rant.

I'd be interested to hear what others on here think.

I really enjoyed reading your post , well written and spot on. Great rant! Are you sure you're 31 ! As you mention, most F-type owners are generally a bit (or a lot) older. This probably is due to the price of the cars historically, which is changing as they get more affordable. Quite a few "younger" folk have F-types now. My friend at work bought his at age 24 (6 years ago) and still can't see anything he'd rather have.

In terms of EV's, I think the current battery technology determines the dullness to a large extent. In design terms, not having to package much in the way of mechanicals should enable some stunning designs one day. A space ship on wheels will do nicely, but it'd have to be outrageous to replace the sound of an engine.

32 next week if that helps?

The F Type is in such a great sweet spot at the moment price wise - the bang for your buck is great. You get the amazing looks, heritage, good driving dynamics and great engines and sounds, and yet it's new enough to still feel like a modern car with a nice interior that isn't worn out. I love the F Type and as said, always have since it's release, but I will admit when I first started looking I was originally looking at the Aston Vantage. Realistically though you are paying the same for a car that is 7-8 years older and therefore missing some of that modern tech. You have to get a manual really as the auto is supposedly a bit... well sh*t. Repair bills will be higher and you'll be down on power too. Don't get me wrong... amazing cars in their own right and sure, 550hp is a bit overkill for the street... but it wouldn't have made sense when the F Type is at the price it is. Plus it's a bit more me. The Aston is too sophisticated. The F type has that nice hooligan quality that puts a big grin on your face and makes you feel like a child.

Very true about design. We might get some qwerky interesting stuff in the years to come. I'm not convinced it'll be enough though... not unless it floats above the ground like the good old hover car predictions from the 50's.

[scm]

... I will admit when I first started looking I was originally looking at the Aston Vantage. Realistically though you are paying the same for a car that is 7-8 years older and therefore missing some of that modern tech. You have to get a manual really as the auto is supposedly a bit... well sh*t. Repair bills will be higher and you'll be down on power too. Don't get me wrong... amazing cars in their own right and sure, 550hp is a bit overkill for the street... but it wouldn't have made sense when the F Type is at the price it is. Plus it's a bit more me. The Aston is too sophisticated. The F type has that nice hooligan quality that puts a big grin on your face and makes you feel like a child.

Astons are just rich men's Jaguars ....

[MArtyn Veg]

... I will admit when I first started looking I was originally looking at the Aston Vantage. Realistically though you are paying the same for a car that is 7-8 years older and therefore missing some of that modern tech. You have to get a manual really as the auto is supposedly a bit... well sh*t. Repair bills will be higher and you'll be down on power too. Don't get me wrong... amazing cars in their own right and sure, 550hp is a bit overkill for the street... but it wouldn't have made sense when the F Type is at the price it is. Plus it's a bit more me. The Aston is too sophisticated. The F type has that nice hooligan quality that puts a big grin on your face and makes you feel like a child.

Astons are just rich men's Jaguars ....

Like it!

[MArtyn Veg]

Good rant btw Stefan. Agree

[scharlton]

Hi Stefan,
Don't believe all the news on the transition to EV's. The deadlines are being set by governments whether the customer or the technology are ready or not. Lots of car companies made predictions in-line with the targeted dates but believe me, as a supplier of components into the EU car industry, the forecasts for parts for V8's is strong for many years yet. For sure, there is no engine development going on other than design changes to make then suitable for Hybrids so smaller engines are stagnant, but V8's remain strong due to demand. I think a lot of people are getting them while they can.

Final comment, I heard a EV reversing the other day (Nissan I think) and it had a polite version of a commercial vehicle reversing beep, beep, beep. That summed up my dismay at the future......... will be hanging onto my R for as long as possible.